Comments on: Hawthorne to try out for Falcons … Steinberg wants to be clear http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/ University of Hawaii Sports Coverage Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:33:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: wes http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10110 wes Sun, 04 May 2008 22:11:19 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10110 I know I said priviously that it is nothing personal and only about the money BUT honestly it saddens me to see the coach I once highly respected, admired and often bragged about now show a contrasting side which appears to slip on integrity to do what is right and walk the walk. I think if Coach Jones reflects on WWJD in this situation, he'd probably do things differently. I believe "spirit" of the Liquidated Damage (LD) clause would weigh more heavily on his conscientious/moral compass and help him make the right decision, which would be to forego challenge/pay-up. Afterall the "spirit" of the LD clause (which was in-part to minimize harm to the UH in event of an untimely departure by coach and staff) was most certainly breached! It was the most untimely of times and no denying UH was harmed. So Coach Jones please read Matthew 5:25 and initiate settlement and end the arbitration process:-). I know I said priviously that it is nothing personal and only about the money BUT honestly it saddens me to see the coach I once highly respected, admired and often bragged about now show a contrasting side which appears to slip on integrity to do what is right and walk the walk. I think if Coach Jones reflects on WWJD in this situation, he’d probably do things differently. I believe “spirit” of the Liquidated Damage (LD) clause would weigh more heavily on his conscientious/moral compass and help him make the right decision, which would be to forego challenge/pay-up. Afterall the “spirit” of the LD clause (which was in-part
to minimize harm to the UH in event of an untimely departure by coach and staff) was most certainly breached! It was the most untimely of times and no denying UH was harmed. So Coach Jones please read Matthew 5:25 and initiate settlement and end the arbitration process:-).

]]> By: just an opinion http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10108 just an opinion Sun, 04 May 2008 20:30:20 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10108 $400,000+ is a sizable amount, considering the operating loss of the athletic department and its needs. that money could go a long way. I agree with the others. jones left early, pay up. it's the right thing to do. he's over 40, BE A MAN! go after him. or maybe, frazier, steinberg, and jones can split it 3 ways. $400,000+ is a sizable amount, considering the operating loss of the athletic department and its needs. that money could go a long way. I agree with the others. jones left early, pay up. it’s the right thing to do. he’s over 40, BE A MAN! go after him. or maybe, frazier, steinberg, and jones can split it 3 ways.

]]> By: IsleStyle http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10103 IsleStyle Sun, 04 May 2008 04:19:44 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10103 UH doesn't have to ever play a non-BCS team like SMU when playing a BCS team is better and somebody else can create another Foundation to replace the June Jones Foundation. UH doesn't need to be ransom by any individual because of future, present or past considerations. UH doesn’t have to ever play a non-BCS team like SMU when playing a BCS team is better and somebody else can create another Foundation to replace the June Jones Foundation.

UH doesn’t need to be ransom by any individual because of future, present or past considerations.

]]> By: Duster http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10102 Duster Sun, 04 May 2008 00:08:47 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10102 Interesting "spin" by Leigh Steinberg. I don't recall seeing any reference to the UH $400,008 claim to arise from the salary due to JJ for January 2008 through June 2008 anywhere. The callers to the local call-in shows and the posters on fan message boards all seem to be aware that the claim arises from a liquidated damages provision ("LD's") in JJ's contract. In any event, it was JJ, not the fans, who injected the 1/08-6/08 salary issue into the spotlight. Back when the LD's first came to light, JJ indicated that he thought the LD's would be a wash because he was saving UH $400,000 in salary for the 1/08-6/08 period by by leaving. Don't blame the fans for any misunderstanding, Leigh! With that said, I am on the side of working toward a compromise. By compromise, I don't mean that UH totally walks away from the $400,008 - just a settlement somewhere in between $0 and $400,008. There are legal and factual arguments that support both sides such that it does not appear to be black and white (no pun intended) but rather gray. The recent relevation of Herman Frazier's e-mail could be construed as a memorialization of a written modification of the contract, or allow JJ to assert the defenses like waiver and estoppel. On the other hand, JJ has to recognize that the timing of his departure left UH with much uncertainty and angst within the tail end of the recruiting season. His regime also left UH "holding the bag" with a lawsuit filed by a recruit who may have been offered verbally a scholarship. My view of the big picture is that JJ is someone who could be in a position to help UH Athletics in the future through the June Jones Foundation and the scheduling of future 13th games here in the near future despite SMU's current position of "no opening for ten years." To think that a football head coach would not be able to change such position to add 13th games would be naive. UH will get additional revenues by having the 13th game and make up for LD's. And you know that JJ will not be afraid of coming here to play like Mack Brown, John L. Smith, etc. Just my 2 cents. Interesting “spin” by Leigh Steinberg. I don’t recall seeing any reference to the UH $400,008 claim to arise from the salary due to JJ for January 2008 through June 2008 anywhere. The callers to the local call-in shows and the posters on fan message boards all seem to be aware that the claim arises from a liquidated damages provision (”LD’s”) in JJ’s contract. In any event, it was JJ, not the fans, who injected the 1/08-6/08 salary issue into the spotlight. Back when the LD’s first came to light, JJ indicated that he thought the LD’s would be a wash because he was saving UH $400,000 in salary for the 1/08-6/08 period by by leaving. Don’t blame the fans for any misunderstanding, Leigh!

With that said, I am on the side of working toward a compromise. By compromise, I don’t mean that UH totally walks away from the $400,008 - just a settlement somewhere in between $0 and $400,008. There are legal and factual arguments that support both sides such that it does not appear to be black and white (no pun intended) but rather gray. The recent relevation of Herman Frazier’s e-mail could be construed as a memorialization of a written modification of the contract, or allow JJ to assert the defenses like waiver and estoppel. On the other hand, JJ has to recognize that the timing of his departure left UH with much uncertainty and angst within the tail end of the recruiting season. His regime also left UH “holding the bag” with a lawsuit filed by a recruit who may have been offered verbally a scholarship.

My view of the big picture is that JJ is someone who could be in a position to help UH Athletics in the future through the June Jones Foundation and the scheduling of future 13th games here in the near future despite SMU’s current position of “no opening for ten years.” To think that a football head coach would not be able to change such position to add 13th games would be naive. UH will get additional revenues by having the 13th game and make up for LD’s. And you know that JJ will not be afraid of coming here to play like Mack Brown, John L. Smith, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

]]> By: Chuck http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10101 Chuck Sat, 03 May 2008 22:28:32 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10101 I agree with Rick and Wes....JJ should Not have his cake and eat it too. He made a decision to move on and he and his agent should know by now that contracts need written modifications to reflect new agreements. I love what JJ did for our football team, and I wish him the best but I think the football team needs the money more than he does and most important the right thing to do is for him to fork over the money. If he wants to continue to pursue the money...he should chase HF. I agree with Rick and Wes….JJ should Not have his cake and eat it too. He made a decision to move on and he and his agent should know by now that contracts need written modifications to reflect new agreements.

I love what JJ did for our football team, and I wish him the best but I think the football team needs the money more than he does and most important the right thing to do is for him to fork over the money. If he wants to continue to pursue the money…he should chase HF.

]]> By: wes http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10099 wes Sat, 03 May 2008 20:35:31 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10099 I agree with Rick...nothing personal. It was a business decision on JJ/LS' part, about greener pastures & better money/opportunity. So they shouldn't have it both ways. And for UH/boosters/fans it should likewise simply be for us about money/better opportunity too! Nothing personal. I agree with Rick…nothing personal. It was a business decision on JJ/LS’ part, about greener pastures & better money/opportunity. So they shouldn’t have it both ways. And for UH/boosters/fans it should likewise simply be for us about money/better opportunity too! Nothing personal.

]]> By: guardian http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10098 guardian Sat, 03 May 2008 19:52:55 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10098 The thing is..we are NOT in a 'shambles' situation anymore. Nobody was more deprssed than I was after the Sugar Bowl. But give June Jones his due. After a groundswell of support gave Coach Mack the wherewithall to seek the Head Coaching position, June Jones gave him his blessing. If he was truly as class-less & heartless as so many haters make him out to be, he would've put pressure or laid a guilt/loyalty trip on Coach Mack-which he did not. The result is that I'm even more confident about our upcoming showdown in the Swamp than if Jones were still here. Two programs are benefitting from the change; 2 programs are "rising from the ashes" like Phoenixes instead of wallowing in despair. WAIVE the damn money instead of holding JJ to the "letter of the contract". Let's do away with the acrimony & adversarial doings. We got rid of HF & though it irritates me that he got a nice severance, so be it. Let's make a clean sweep & keep things cordial between us & SMU, because there'd be nothing better than to kick SMU's butt in 2009 & 2010! The thing is..we are NOT in a ’shambles’ situation anymore. Nobody was more deprssed than I was after the Sugar Bowl. But give June Jones his due. After a groundswell of support gave Coach Mack the wherewithall to seek the Head Coaching position, June Jones gave him his blessing. If he was truly as class-less & heartless as so many haters make him out to be, he would’ve put pressure or laid a guilt/loyalty trip on Coach Mack-which he did not. The result is that I’m even more confident about our upcoming showdown in the Swamp than if Jones were still here. Two programs are benefitting from the change; 2 programs are “rising from the ashes” like Phoenixes instead of wallowing in despair. WAIVE the damn money instead of holding JJ to the “letter of the contract”. Let’s do away with the acrimony & adversarial doings. We got rid of HF & though it irritates me that he got a nice severance, so be it. Let’s make a clean sweep & keep things cordial between us & SMU, because there’d be nothing better than to kick SMU’s butt in 2009 & 2010!

]]> By: Rick http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10097 Rick Sat, 03 May 2008 19:32:34 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10097 To me a contract is a contract. It's not about who did the most for who or whether coach Jones was so good a guy that he should be forgiven from his contractual obligations. It's true that coach Jones gave much to Hawaii but I hope Hawaii also gave much to him. To evoke the "look what I've done for you" orientation is something that belongs in playgrounds or with confused teenage lovers. Sometimes it feels like the dialogue is one is which we in Hawaii should be so grateful for what coach Jones has done that we should allow him to not make good on his contractual obligations. I think this puts us in a diminished position. If his contract says he owes the money then he owes the money. The issue should not get confused with who did what for who or whether the job had frustrations. Coach Jones decided to parlay his success into a big contract and move on. This is his right. I respect his right to move on and benefit from his success. The State of Hawaii is is similarly entitled to the compensation that is written into the contract he signed with us. This is our right and to not advocate for ourselves is silly in my opinion. To me a contract is a contract. It’s not about who did the most for who or whether coach Jones was so good a guy that he should be forgiven from his contractual obligations. It’s true that coach Jones gave much to Hawaii but I hope Hawaii also gave much to him. To evoke the “look what I’ve done for you” orientation is something that belongs in playgrounds or with confused teenage lovers. Sometimes it feels like the dialogue is one is which we in Hawaii should be so grateful for what coach Jones has done that we should allow him to not make good on his contractual obligations. I think this puts us in a diminished position. If his contract says he owes the money then he owes the money. The issue should not get confused with who did what for who or whether the job had frustrations. Coach Jones decided to parlay his success into a big contract and move on. This is his right. I respect his right to move on and benefit from his success. The State of Hawaii is is similarly entitled to the compensation that is written into the contract he signed with us. This is our right and to not advocate for ourselves is silly in my opinion.

]]> By: Jimmy http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10096 Jimmy Sat, 03 May 2008 18:54:54 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10096 "In the end, June Jones did a lot for Hawaii Football and we did get Greg McMackin quickly. If we were in shambles after Jones " Wayne O. remember that Jones attempted to get Coach Mack to accompany him to SMU, effectively leaving the program in a shambles! Making a contract lapse shortly after the end of the season would be sensible though. Jones effectively stopped coaching before the Sugar Bowl, taking SMU game tapes with him to New Orleans to review. His team's performance suffered from his lack of preparation and inability to alter his game plan to keep the Georgia defensive line from swarming Colt. “In the end, June Jones did a lot for Hawaii Football and we did get Greg McMackin quickly. If we were in shambles after Jones ”

Wayne O. remember that Jones attempted to get Coach Mack to accompany him to SMU, effectively leaving the program in a shambles!

Making a contract lapse shortly after the end of the season would be sensible though.

Jones effectively stopped coaching before the Sugar Bowl, taking SMU game tapes with him to New Orleans to review. His team’s performance suffered from his lack of preparation and inability to alter his game plan to keep the Georgia defensive line from swarming Colt.

]]> By: Wayne O. http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10093 Wayne O. Sat, 03 May 2008 08:07:26 +0000 http://blogs.starbulletin.com/uhsportsextra/hawthorne-to-try-out-for-falcons/#comment-10093 It would be good to have a compromise. If it's going to arbitration then I guess that's okay too. In any event, we should move on as soon as possible. Since he didn't get paid for the 2nd part of his contract I would have no problem in waiving the penalty. In the end, June Jones did a lot for Hawaii Football and we did get Greg McMackin quickly. If we were in shambles after Jones left then yes, collect the penalty. It's crazy having a contract running from July to June. Contracts should end at the end of December or not long after a bowl game. What if a coach resigns in June? We would have no head coach and the season would be starting in end of August or early Sept. It would be good to have a compromise.
If it’s going to arbitration then I guess that’s okay too. In any event, we should move on as soon as possible. Since he didn’t get paid for the 2nd part of his contract I would have no problem in waiving the penalty. In the end, June Jones did a lot for Hawaii Football and we did get Greg McMackin quickly. If we were in shambles after Jones left then yes, collect the penalty. It’s crazy having a contract running from July to June. Contracts should end at the end of December or not long after a bowl game. What if a coach resigns in June? We would have no head coach and the season would be starting in end of August or early Sept.

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